[ycavan]

Zaraki Kenpachi didn't have shikai yet because he's always been soo powerful. After that fight w/ Ichigo, we all know that he will be a monster soon.

[darkblue(eyes)]

despite the fact that its captain didn't even achieve shikai? you must be a fortune teller XD


probably cause he's still new to bankai and he knows Ikkaku has had it for a while. I dunno...

Didn't achieve shikai yet?As I recall kenipachi forced his sword into shikai due to the fact that his spiritual energy was enormous.

On a side note,once kenpachi learns the name of his sword he will achieve a whole new lvl even if he doesn't learn bankai.

[Ichigo_Kurosaki]

Nope...i jsut watched those eps with ichigio versus zaraki, his sword isn't in shikai

[Ricalloo]

True: Zaraki's sword is not in a released stae.

We do not yet know if he will have some new power the next time we see him. But one never knows.

[darkblue(eyes)]

Nope...i jsut watched those eps with ichigio versus zaraki, his sword isn't in shikai

Instead of watching it,I wiki it because I clearly remember the episode.His spiritual energy is so great that his zanpaktou is constantly in shikai mode,he just doesn't know its name.Wiki it or just read around,alot of people on other boards seem to have the same idea so I don't know what you rewatched...

[OsoMarron]

heh... Remember that you can't achieve Shikai until you call out your zanpakutoh name. It's the basics.

[Ichigo_Kurosaki]

XD thank you Oso

[darkblue(eyes)]

heh... Remember that you can't achieve Shikai until you call out your zanpakutoh name. It's the basics.

You can't become captain either unless you can master bankai:rolleyes: If you want,I guess I can find a screen shot of him saying that his sword is in a constant release state.

[Ricalloo]

Hmm according to Wiki it says:
"Even though Kenpachi doesn't know the name of his sword, his spiritual power is so great that his zanpakutō is constantly released."

And the reference is said to be:
Bleach Official Character Book SOULs; page 258.

Well I found a BT link for the Databook:
[Bleach7]Bleach​_Databook​_Souls.​zip
[Ju-Ni]databooksouls​_part01.​zip

I'm gonna try and DL one of them and see what is says on page 258.

[darkblue(eyes)]

Hmm according to Wiki it says:
"Even though Kenpachi doesn't know the name of his sword, his spiritual power is so great that his zanpakutō is constantly released."

And the reference is said to be:
Bleach Official Character Book SOULs; page 258.

Well I found a BT link for the Databook:
[Bleach7]Bleach​_Databook​_Souls.​zip
[Ju-Ni]databooksouls​_part01.​zip

I'm gonna try and DL one of them and see what is says on page 258.

Ya that would be great:heh:

The thing is im not arguing with the fact that kenpachi doesn't know his swords name but rather he forced it into shikai unwillingly.

[emekos2002]

Cool Episode... *reads previous posts:heh: *WoW 1 appearance and so much debate....no wonder he is the coolest of all captains'!!:kakashi:

[Ricalloo]

Looks like the data book and character book are different. Not only that but the links for the data book have no seeds and I can't find anything for the character book.

So as of now I guess we will just have to live with what we believe.

[Ichigo_Kurosaki]

You can't become captain either unless you can master bankai:rolleyes: If you want,I guess I can find a screen shot of him saying that his sword is in a constant release state.

Uh, there are 3 ways to become captain but :shrug: okay, lets say it's constantly released..it's a prettyt damn sucky release <_<

[OsoMarron]

You can't become captain either unless you can master bankai:rolleyes: If you want,I guess I can find a screen shot of him saying that his sword is in a constant release state.

Your comparisson makes no sense... achieving a zanpakutoh state and getting a position in SS army are unrelated facts.

But if you must bring that up, ANOTHER way of becoming captain is to defeat a squad captain in front of (i believe 200) witnesses, which Zaraki did.

[darkblue(eyes)]

Your comparisson makes no sense... achieving a zanpakutoh state and getting a position in SS army are unrelated facts.

But if you must bring that up, ANOTHER way of becoming captain is to defeat a squad captain in front of (i believe 200) witnesses, which Zaraki did.

If you would just read,I'm obviously not making a direct comparision between the two...but rather saying it as a way to prove a point.

I guess I was confused,I thought that you must have acheived bankai as a requirement but kenpachi is a special case or so I thought.

Nevertheless this was never about the requirements but wither or not kenpachi has shikai.

ichigo_kurosaki-Who said it wasn't crappy?Most people im sure assume that kenpachi after learning the name of his sword will achieve a whole new level.

[OsoMarron]

im sure assume that kenpachi after learning the name of his sword will achieve a whole new level.

...called shikai Glad that got cleared out for you.

[darkblue(eyes)]

im sure assume that kenpachi after learning the name of his sword will achieve a whole new level.

...called shikai Glad that got cleared out for you.

If your going to put words into my mouth at least have somthing to back it up.Instead of this senseless argument,I will post a screen shot.

[OsoMarron]

I will post a screen shot.

suit yourself

[Ricalloo]

Well until I see proof I'm gonna assume what I always did, that Zaraki cannot yet use shikai.

[OsoMarron]

Well until I see proof I'm gonna assume what I always did, that Zaraki cannot yet use shikai.

In my case, I don't even think is an assumption, but a fact.

• You achieve shikai when you call out your zanpakutoh name.
• The zanpakutoh has to tell you its name.

• Zaraki doesn't know the name of his zanpakutoh.
• Zaraki believed zanpakutoh's spirit was nonsense and refused to even try to listen to it.

[Syn]

Uh. It is CANON that Zaraki's zanpakutou is *always* in shikai mode. He can't use its powers to the fullest, but it is already in shikai mode. Like Ichigo's zanpakutou is *always* in shikai mode. Because those two have such huge reiatsu, and can't control it, that it can't be sealed in normal form.
Difference between the two: Ichigo knows how to use his shikai attack (he even knew before knowing the attack's name), Zaraki doesn't.
If you want Zaraki to take a step, then it'll be shikai attack, not shikai. Because he's already in shikai mode.
It's been fully explained during Zaraki's fight and after by Yoruichi. And retold in the SOULs databook.

[darkblue(eyes)]

Uh. It is CANON that Zaraki's zanpakutou is *always* in shikai mode. He can't use its powers to the fullest, but it is already in shikai mode. Like Ichigo's zanpakutou is *always* in shikai mode. Because those two have such huge reiatsu, and can't control it, that it can't be sealed in normal form.
Difference between the two: Ichigo knows how to use his shikai attack (he even knew before knowing the attack's name), Zaraki doesn't.
If you want Zaraki to take a step, then it'll be shikai attack, not shikai. Because he's already in shikai mode.
It's been fully explained during Zaraki's fight and after by Yoruichi. And retold in the SOULs databook.

Thank you for clearing the facts:heh:

[Alchemist007]

Wow, you guys...go watch the episodes again.

[OsoMarron]

Wow, you guys...go watch the episodes again.

yup... they got the facts messed up, those two. :snicker: they need to stop grabbing wikis and databooks and just watch the damn episodes. :lmao:

[Syn]

Uh, no really. It's pretty clear, and no need to go watch the anime, thanks. I've got the manga panels under my eyes for that.
The fact is that Zaraki can't hear his sword; however, his sword is *always* in shikai mode, like Ichigo's. It also has been stated by Kubo in the databooks; what is there more to understand?

[Alchemist007]

these databooks are not the episodes. Yes, his sword is always screaming, but nowhere does anyone mention shikai. Anyways how about you tell me exactly where they mention this, seeing how I can't prove that he never says it aside from you watching the show again.

[darkblue(eyes)]

Uh, no really. It's pretty clear, and no need to go watch the anime, thanks. I've got the manga panels under my eyes for that.
The fact is that Zaraki can't hear his sword; however, his sword is *always* in shikai mode, like Ichigo's. It also has been stated by Kubo in the databooks; what is there more to understand?

I can't dl episode 38-39 without having to use rm files and for some reason I can't capture screen shot using those files.Can you just capture a screen shot of your manga chapter or just tell me what chapter it is so I can do it myself.

I'm amaze how many people miss those few lines which are not hard to see at all.

[Syn]

[spoiler=just because the image is huge][/spoiler]

There it is. Yoruichi asks Ichigo: have you noticed that your Zangetsu's is always in its release form?
Ichigo: Really? So it's like Kenpachi's sword soul cutter?

Here you are. It's canon. Fact. As in Zaraki's zanpakutou is always in shikai mode. Volume 14, chapter 120, page 7 for those who wonder.

[Alchemist007]

lol that doesn't prove that Zaraki's is always in shikai, it proves that Zaraki's is always in one form.

[darkblue(eyes)]

lol that doesn't prove that Zaraki's is always in shikai, it proves that Zaraki's is always in one form.

always in one form?What so hard to understand about "Always in RELEASE FORM like kenpachi"

Now it seems like your in denial because for so long people believe that kenpachi never had shikai.Anyways its on wiki and even apprently in soul books

[Ricalloo]

Looks like my last statement is still true...

Well until I see proof I'm gonna assume what I always did, that Zaraki cannot yet use shikai.

I said he can't use it, not that he is not released. Bwahaha!

[darkblue(eyes)]

Looks like my last statement is still true...



I said he can't use it, not that he is not released. Bwahaha!

lol that was a good one,you could have said it either way depending on how people looked at it:heh: Kinda like a trick answer.

[OsoMarron]

lol that doesn't prove that Zaraki's is always in shikai, it proves that Zaraki's is always in one form.

you could say the "oblivious" form, since he doesn't believe in zanpakutoh's being more than just mere swords.

[Alchemist007]

always in one form?What so hard to understand about "Always in RELEASE FORM like kenpachi"

Now it seems like your in denial because for so long people believe that kenpachi never had shikai.Anyways its on wiki and even apprently in soul books

He doesn't even say 'release form', he just says that it doesn't change like Kenpachi's.

[Alchemist007]

Ok anyways I don't think this proves it's in shikai, it just plain old doesn't look like anything beyond another beaten up sword. Ichigo was pretty oblivious to the whole concept at that point and Zaraki never mentioned it himself.

[emekos2002]

One thing thatz for sure is that if he ever achieves bankai then its over...even complete control Ichigo won't stand a chance.

[darkblue(eyes)]

Ok anyways I don't think this proves it's in shikai, it just plain old doesn't look like anything beyond another beaten up sword. Ichigo was pretty oblivious to the whole concept at that point and Zaraki never mentioned it himself.

How did he not mention it himself?He him self said that his spiritual energy is so large that he can't seal his sword even if he wanted to.

Yet you told us to rewatch the episode...

[OsoMarron]

If you're right, that means you can tell us what the name of Zaraki's sword is... so go ahead, tell us.

[darkblue(eyes)]

If you're right, that means you can tell us what the name of Zaraki's sword is... so go ahead, tell us.

Ok we all know that he DOESN'T know the name,you obviously convince yourself to the point that you won't listen to reason.

Now things are just going in a 360 turn...I already establish that kenpachi doesn't know the name of his sword hence the reason he can't use any special attacks:rolleyes:

Anyways the facts are there,you also said somthing alone the lines of "data books and wiki has gotten those 2 confuse,just go watch the episode even though the soul book was written by kubo himself.

Now that the manga has proven my point,I don't think I need to say much more.
Now hopefully everyone can just go back to what they want to believe in.

[OsoMarron]

:yawn: weren't you going to post screenshots?

[darkblue(eyes)]

:yawn: weren't you going to post screenshots?

Read what I said:twitch: "Now that the manga has proven my point,I don't need to say much more.This is just a step backwards once again.

The screenshot of the manga by syn has proven my point plenty if not better.

[shiam]

right, screens from the anime from the Zaraki-Ichigo Fight and yoruichi about this:

Ep 35:
18:35

18:38

18:41

18:45


Yoruichi on bankai:
Ep 42 19:27

Ep 45 4:05


Right so given that, i would say by yoruichi's requirements for shikai he cannot have it by the fact there is no dialog of harmony between him and his sword. He definitely doesn't have an standard issue zanpaktou, which give credence to the fact he is at that level, but due to the complete lack of usable abilities from his zanpaktou i don't see him as having shikai.

[darkblue(eyes)]

right, screens from the anime from the Zaraki-Ichigo Fight and yoruichi about this:

Ep 35:
18:35

18:38

18:41

18:45


Yoruichi on bankai:
Ep 42 19:27

Ep 45 4:05


Right so given that, i would say by yoruichi's requirements for shikai he cannot have it by the fact there is no dialog of harmony between him and his sword. He definitely doesn't have an standard issue zanpaktou, which give credence to the fact he is at that level, but due to the complete lack of usable abilities from his zanpaktou i don't see him as having shikai.

Many people have different standard as to what shikai is,ichigo couldn't used his shikai to the fullest either at the start yet its still considered shikai.

Apprently there is a "soul book" that is written by kubo which states that kenpachi indeed has shikai.Maybe I should look for it,that would be the end to this disagreement.

Also you didn't show what he kenpachi said next which I would consider the most important part.

"The reason I don't seal my soul slayer is because my spirit force is so huge that I couldn't seal it even IF I wanted to"

Also as for her requirement,isn't that only apply to someone who has truly "master" shikai?We all know that kenpachi hasn't even come close to mastering it and that his sword crys during battles because of doesn't work with it.

In the conculsion,this is anime.There are always 1 or 2 chracters that defies logic itself like ichigo who only took 1 month or less to master bankai.

[OsoMarron]

Ichigo shouted Zangetsu and from that point on, shikai was released.

So far we have Zaraki saying his sword isn't sealed, but hey, he doesn't say it's released either... he just says that's its true form (cause he doesn't believe in all that "zanpakutoh is your friend bs").

We also have Ichigo talking about "full time released like Zaraki" in a point when he didn't even know the terms bankai and shikai, so it can't be credited as reliable data either.

[shiam]

Also you didn't show what he kenpachi said next which I would consider the most important part.

"The reason I don't seal my soul slayer is because my spirit force is so huge that I couldn't seal it even IF I wanted to"

Also as for her requirement,isn't that only apply to someone who has truly "master" shikai?We all know that kenpachi hasn't even come close to mastering it and that his sword crys during battles because of doesn't work with it.

I wouldn't quite consider unsealed shikai in this case as he gains no inherent benefit from it being unsealed the same goes for ichigo, when they're not using some power th zanpaktou is just a big sword as we see when ichigo is getting tossed around earlier in that fight.

When yoruichi's talking about shikai she seems to imply that it's the basic requirement for the abilty.

[Ricalloo]

So does Shikai mean released or does it mean being able to use the power of the released state?

Maybe that is the true question.

Zaraki's sword may be in a released state, but can he use it's special ability? No.

Ichigo's is also always released, but he CAN use it's special ability... His slashing moon fang attack. Renji has his stretch armstrong sword attack. Kira's can make your weapon twice as heavy with each attack. What does Zaraki's "shikai" do, and what is it's name?

So the question is.... does Shikai simply mean your sword is "released" or that you can do something special with it...? Because obviously Zaraki can only swing his around like a normal Zanpaktou.

A nameless Zanpaktou without a call out or any special ability....

[darkblue(eyes)]

So does Shikai mean released or does it mean being able to use the power of the released state?

Maybe that is the true question.

Zaraki's sword may be in a released state, but can he use it's special ability? No.

Ichigo's is also always released, but he CAN use it's special ability... His slashing moon fang attack. Renji has his stretch armstrong sword attack. Kira's can make your weapon twice as heavy with each attack. What does Zaraki's "shikai" do, and what is it's name?

So the question is.... does Shikai simply mean your sword is "released" or that you can do something special with it...? Because obviously Zaraki can only swing his around like a normal Zanpaktou.

A nameless Zanpaktou without a call out or any special ability....

That is why kanpachi is considered a special case in my opinion...Like he said,he FORCED his sword into shikai with a massive spirit force...No one is saying it gives him any benefit but rather it was forced into shika.

I got into this debate knowing well that kenpachi can't do squat with his release shikai because he doesn't listen to it,so why are people continually repeating this well known fact:twitch:

btw-I think I should look for that darn soul book syn was talking about,no one can really argue with "kubo" right?Considering he's the one that created the manga,no matter how much you argue things won't change.

[Syn]

Yeah but SOULs isn't translated (only a tiny bit of it is translated ATM). I got that from friends who can read Japaneses and have SOULs. There is also a second databook, VIBEs, dedicated to the anime. They have a manga format.

[emekos2002]

a thread on its own...XD

[kameroshiso]

well here the episode where ken talk about his sword

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=q4HEdvwypNI