[rabidenvyfan]

*a bit puzzled* Why hasn't any of his extended family ever been mentioned? His father is understandable, since: (manga spoiler
he was a shinigami camping out in the living world to begin with (why was he exiled/disappeared?) Ichi's mother should have relatives (logically)... But no one ever goes to visit her grave besides ichi and co. Did she know who her husband was? (manga spoilers ahead)
I mean, i suspect ichi's dad he left soul society because he wanted a family. My suspicions is that she may not be human. We have no idea how the two met. It seems that everyone, including his father knew from the start that ichi was going to end up as a vizard or something along those lines. My crazy theory is that ichi's mom is a highly ranked hollow/vastrode. hollowXshinigami = ?
it's really farfetched, but it'd be a surprise,ne?

[naruto11]

Intersting theory. [spoiler=manga spoiler]though do u think a hollow would eat another hollow? >_< and ichi's dad is a 'masked' shinigami, so no reason for his mommy to be a hollow.[/spoiler]

[kameroshiso]

to become an intresting plot twist

[ycavan]

Personally, I think Ichigo is related to the King of Soul Society. There are FAAAAR too many references to "King" when Ogichi is talking to Ichigo. Mebbe his mom is the daughter of the King and Isshin was one of the Royal Guard at some point?

[BuzzLiteBeer]

Still doesn't really explain how Kingfisher (I think that's who it was...) killed her so easily. You'd think she'd put up a fight if she had that kind of background. meh.

Still think it was funny how Isshin wasted Kingfisher "Trunks" style. U KILL MY WIFE, DIE! *dies*

[ycavan]

I don't think EVERYONE needs to have a high Reiatsu... or, Kingfisher could have killed her the same way he killed all the Shinigami... showed her someone that she couldn't kill?

[OsoMarron]

Still think it was funny how Isshin wasted Kingfisher "Trunks" style. U KILL MY WIFE, DIE! *dies*

I didn't particularly liked that... I always figured it would have had to be Ichigo

[ycavan]

Yeah, kinda makes it anti-climactic, doesn't it?

[BuzzLiteBeer]

I didn't particularly liked that... I always figured it would have had to be Ichigo

OMG, Oso's admitting to reading the manga!!!!!! :faint: Had to see what you were missing huh?

I kinda felt that way too but in the end this way was probably more appropriate.

I just don't get why Isshin's being so secretive about it, of all people Ichigo should know what his dad REALLY is

[Sheila]

I actually liked it . Who else had more right to off Grand Fisher than Isshin? Especially since he knew what happened the entire time, and had to cope with the fact he couldn't save her for the entire time.

[ycavan]

Ichigo has been prepared his whole life, remember, guys? lol. Every morning, what happens? His dad attacks him... sound like training, anyone?

[rabidenvyfan]

I suspect that maybe that's her gigai or something. Hollows are spiritual biengs like shinigami so the idea seems feasable.

[Nanibaka]

If you read chapter 187 again you will see the hollow that was looking for ichi say that "The father is a death god... That would make Ichi a Shinketsu. No wonder my skill was inferior to his at one point." Am I missing something? What is a shinketsu? I think his mom had to besomething special...

[ycavan]

It means that Ichigo, and his sisters, are true-born Shinigami with a Shinigami parent. They are all born into the powers of the Shinigami and Ichigo didn't "steal" any power from Rukia... she just awakened them.

[OsoMarron]

and Ichigo didn't "steal" any power from Rukia... she just awakened them.

As i understood, he did steal her power, but lost it in his first "fight" against Byakuya. After that he awakened his own powers.

[Clish]

As i understood, he did steal her power, but lost it in his first "fight" against Byakuya. After that he awakened his own powers.

true, thats what i thought ! but it still doenst answer who his mother is

[ycavan]

The whole point was that Ichigo has been developing since the day his dad has been training him.

Also note that Rukia, when she first "loses" her powers, states that she has NEVER seen a normal, unreleased, Zanpakuto that large.

Also note that after that point, the gigai that Urahara gave Rukia was intended to make her more and more human so the Hongokyou would be destroyed. Rukia still has her powers, but they're constantly drained by the gigai.

All-in-all, there must be SOME reason why Ichigo has such a high Reiatsu... we know that Isshin is more than likely above Captain level with his explanation to a certain Hollow we all knew and loved.

I still say that Ichigo's mom was most likely related to the King of Soul Society and Isshin is a royal guard.

[rabidenvyfan]

I have this thought that she may not be dead. All it showed was her body. Where did her soul go? Did it not occur to Ichigo that he could have seen her when he was in soul society? I think that she left her body (which i think is a gigai since if she is a hollow). May be pushing it though.

[uberslow]

no im pretty sure she's dead or the whole family tragedy would just be a waste of time.

[ycavan]

oh yeah... I agree that she needs to be toasty.

[Ichoro]

toasty ... lol ... no but yeah she needs to b dead otherwise there would not be a plot ... however, I do think that she has to do something with the vizard, remember they were looking for him ?? maybe they are related in some way, why else would they help Ichigo to awaken his vizard powers?? especially with nothing in return??

[rabidenvyfan]

i agree...thier motives are definantly fishy...
If the mother's an amazing hollow, and dad's a great shinigami, why are ichi's sisters marginally able to interact with the supernatural? Aren't ichi's powers supposed to "rub off" on people? He's with his family most, why haven't his sisters aquired anything?

[ycavan]

Ichigo's power didn't really awaken fully 'til Rukia's Zanpakuto was stuck in him.

His sisters could already, marginally, hear/see the dead spirits.

[rabidenvyfan]

Ne, does that mean that if the sisters were awakened w/a zankputou, they could be shinigami too? XD that'd be crazy if all the kurosaki family fought XD Does sound a bit kuboish though

[ycavan]

I think his sisters are starting to mature into their Shinigami nature already.

[Nanibaka]

I maybe nuts but....
Could the Kurosaki family be a SS family? Maybe the Kurosaki name is one of a Death God line like the Kuchiki name. Maybe Ichi's Dad just deserted SS because he fell in love with a human.

[ycavan]

I've pointed out countless times on different boards that it's possible for Ichigo's mom to be associated w/ the SS King in some fashion. ...or even Ichigo's dad.

There are TOO many references to "King" when Ichigo and Ogichi talk to one another... 'n then one of Ichigo's friends/teammates is a "princess"...

Plus the fact that Ichigo has a higher reiatsu level than most captains in SS...

[OsoMarron]

Well, Ichigo still hasn't really displayed a higher reiatsu than a captain. At most, he fought at the same level of Byakuya for a period of time before reaching his shinigami limit (then the hollow side kicked in).

But as we've seen in the manga, the power obtained by the hollow mask is something that powers up not only Ichigo but all the other Vizards as well.

[ycavan]

For sure, Ichigo whipped through 3 vice-captains without a Zanpakuto in a manner of seconds. ...and I do believe that being at the same level of Byakuya and beating Zaraki pretty well ( who in turn took on 3 other captains and won... ) sets him above captain level in my book. 'n I'm not even talking about using Ogichi.

[Ichigo_Kurosaki]

Well that was ichigo at his best if you ask me, he has a few levels of strength

1. Ichigo who fights just to survive. (zaraki/renji fight)
2. ichigo just cause it's the right thing. (hollows/bound.)
3. ichigo who fights for to save/rescue/for someone. (byakuya)

but that's just me..i guess the fighting for survival is the same as number 3 i guess.

[OsoMarron]

Byakuya = captain

(...) being at the same level of Byakuya (...)

(...) sets him above captain level (...)

[ycavan]

fine... nitpick... *laughs*

We all know that Ichigo owned Byakuya and if it were a serious fight, Ichigo would've killed Byakuya w/ his Bankai. Even without Ogichi, I still state quite firmly that Ichigo has higher than Captain level Reiatsu. But, like I said, if you wanna nitpick, then I will agree that at this point, Ichigo is Captain level.

Zangetsu, IMO, also doesn't seem to be a "normal" Zanpakuto... once again, just my opinion.

[OsoMarron]

hmm... Ichigo had reached his limit and was about to be split in half by Byakuya before "Ogichi" kicked in... but if you choose to ignore that, well...

It took Vizard power to get Byakuya weakened enough for standard Ichigo to beat his last technique.

[Sheila]

You can take a couple different stances on this...

If Ichigo had meant to kill Byakuya, the fight would have been over as soon as it began. Ichigo had a clear throat shot, and didn't attack, because his goal was to beat him, and not to kill him (he IS Rukia's brother, and I doubt he'd have looked very good to her if he had killed her)

You could take the stance that after Byakuya used his strongest skills, Ichigo would have lost had not Shirosaki stepped in.
Then it depends on how you see Shirosaki, who's obviously a part of Ichigo whether he likes it or not.

You could take the stance that Ichigo won, after they both agreed on one last attack and Ichigo broke his sword...


Would you say Ichigo is weaker than Kenpachi because Zangetsu helped him at the end?

It's the same argument, both fights were won because another conciousness within him helped out. And what's a fight if you don't play to all your abilities to win?

[Ichigo_Kurosaki]

Shirosaki? first time i heard that name used.

[ycavan]

shiroi is "white" in Japanese.
shiro-saki... is short for shiroi kurosaki "white kurosaki"

anywho... Ichigo's stance was to "beat" Byakuya ( and all the stupidity of Soul Society ), but we all know that Ichigo could very well kill Byakuya with that one hit. In the end, Byakuya states that Ichigo broke his sword and Byakuya was unable to fight him anymore. ( because Ichigo finally got to him )

Zangetsu is Ichigo's "power", but I think there's something else behind that "old man"...

[Sheila]

shiroi is "white" in Japanese.
shiro-saki... is short for shiroi kurosaki "white kurosaki"

Not just that XD

Shiro means white
Kuro means Black

Kurosaki Ichigo is the Shinigami in all Black
Shirosaki Ichigo is the Hollow Ichigo in all white

It works out perfectly!

[ycavan]

very true as well.

[Ichigo_Kurosaki]

wow, and with that logic, i think i'll start using that name too!, lol.

[OsoMarron]

Judeau']If Ichigo had meant to kill Byakuya, the fight would have been over as soon as it began. Ichigo had a clear throat shot, and didn't attack, because his goal was to beat him, and not to kill him (he IS Rukia's brother, and I doubt he'd have looked very good to her if he had killed her)

Byakuya looked down on him all the way until he raised that dome of swords (don't remember the name), so no correct strenght comparisson data can be extracted from before the dome fight.

Judeau']You could take the stance that after Byakuya used his strongest skills, Ichigo would have lost had not Shirosaki stepped in.
Then it depends on how you see Shirosaki, who's obviously a part of Ichigo whether he likes it or not.

what the inner hollow really is isn't completely clear to me... maybe it's even something everyone has potential for, but only some got in circumstances in which they can awaken that power.

Judeau']You could take the stance that Ichigo won, after they both agreed on one last attack and Ichigo broke his sword...

after Byakuya got beaten the crap out of by the Hollow

Judeau']Would you say Ichigo is weaker than Kenpachi because Zangetsu helped him at the end?

well, he was at least at shikkai level against kenpachi fighting with his own reiatsu alone (not to mention that even as Zangetsu said, by not fighting along with his zanpakutoh, Kenpachi was just hurting his own powers).

[ycavan]

All-in-all, Ichigo was more in-tune with his "total self" than the others.

Kenpachi doesn't even have Shikai yet, but he's still strong enough for the Gotei 13.

Byakuya disdains the lower caste yet he marries a girl off the street.

It's typical Shonen stuff... the hero, Ichigo, makes everyone aware of their faults because he's an idiot and in-tune with himself. )

Basically, I'm saying that at the point that Ichigo faced Byakuya, Ichigo was already at a higher level than Byakuya. All Ichigo wanted to do was to force Byakuya to understand how WRONG it is to kill your own sister. ( something most ppl understand )

IF Ichigo's intent was to kill Byakuya, cutting Byakuya's head off was all it would have taken. Ichigo isn't that kind of person, though... *shrugs* dunno if that makes him weaker or even stronger...

BUT back to Ichigo's Mother... Related to Spirit King somehow.

[Sheila]

what the inner hollow really is isn't completely clear to me... maybe it's even something everyone has potential for, but only some got in circumstances in which they can awaken that power.

It seems every Shinigami has the potential to become a Vizard.

"Vaizards."

A rogue group of ex-Shinigami, who use forbidden techniques to gain the power of a Hollow.

By that I would assume all Vizards other than Ichigo were originally Shinigami.

Ichigo seems to be a special case though. Vizards were originally Shinigami, and Arankaru were originally Hollows, but both of Ichigo's sides were awakened at the same time. He gained his Shinigami powers, and Hollow powers together in the Shattered Shaft curtosy of Urahara (who was probably planning it XD).

[Ichigo_Kurosaki]

Judeau']He gained his Shinigami powers, and Hollow powers together in the Shattered Shaft curtosy of Urahara (who was probably planning it XD).

lol, Urahara always definately seems all-knowing, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he planned it. but since we are :offtopic:

I just think his Mother was a normal beautiful woman, and his Dad may be some relation to the "King".

[OsoMarron]

I guess since the father turned from seamingly useless fool into Urahara-level shinigami in the blink of a chapter, some people feel the urge to turn their suspicious eyes on Ichigo's mother and think there's something particular about her as well.

I agree with Ichigo_Kurosaki on this one

[ycavan]

I've pointed out before that Isshin was related to the "King" some way as well... but as a Royal Guard. I still think that Ichigo's mom may also have been related to the "King" ( daughter, niece, cousin, etc... ) who's "normal"... regular reiatsu level, etc...

but Ichigo's "Shinigami-ness" was awakened in episode 1... the pre-Visored Ichigo was awakened later by Urahara... who has developed numerous techniques for drawing out power...

[BigChillin]

I think I am not understanding something - Once a Hollow is released - what happens to the souls that it has consumed? Do they get released into the "Other World? - the one right outside Soul Society - where all those people live? I mean if that is what this Anime is considering to be heaven - wouldn't that mean that Ichigo's Mother is there?

But we don't see here there, do we? That means that she wasn't normal - Otherwise she would have been threre (if the theory of what happens to the souls is true). She has to be something special - Otherwise I don't think that Ichigo would be anything special

I mean even if his father is part of the Royal Guard or related to the "King" somehow - I think that the offspring of someone that high on the spirit scale and normal on the spirit scale would make someone just a little above average. the Average of 10 and 5 would be 7.5 not 11 or 12. It is obvious that the anime is heading to where Ichigo will become stronger than his father to defeat Aizen.

I think the mother has to be more than just a normal human. Average for 10 and 10 is 10 + 5 for being a vizard let's say. I mean if Aizen is such a threat and assuming SS + Ichigo's Dad + Shop Keep is not enough to defeat him - that means that Ichigo has the be stronger than anyone that the anime as presented us with yet

IMO

[ycavan]

The problem with that logic is that Ichigo's mother was consumed/taken by the Kingfisher and we don't know what happens to those souls. Presumably, she became part of Kingfisher and was "lost" to the universe as herself... so Kingfisher could be reborn in Soul Society now and part of his new personality would be Ichigo's mom. Of course, she'd have to contend with all the other souls that Kingfisher "ate" over his span as a Hollow.

[BigChillin]

Assuming that Fisher ate/consumed her soul - not just killed her - Where would a Shinigami go if they were killed in Battle?

[ycavan]

I think that when a Shinigami dies, they are truly dead...

[Millky b0Y]

their spirit dissolves i guess.....absorbed by nature and everything....simply crappin....haha...